Do university degrees matter?
Tuesday, October 18th, 2005 | 11:48 pm @ SK
Via Malaysiakini:
"Whilst in Britain (and to a large extent, the Western world) a university education is seen as not just specialisation but also a broadening of minds, in Malaysia a university education is merely a stepping stone towards one’s career and making money." […]"There is also, in Malaysia, a snobbish attitude towards certain degrees. The preferred degrees are medicine, engineering, law and accountancy. Social sciences? They’re for those who aren’t up to studying for the ‘proper’ subjects. When I was filling out my UPU (Unit Pemprosesan Universiti) forms all those years ago, I was tempted to put down anthropology at UIA (Universiti Islam Antarabangsa) as one of my degree choices. I talked it over with a friend of my brother’s who was a UIA student at the time."
"Anthropology? Why would you want to do that? That’s what all the matrics students who can’t get into law do you know." […]
So Farah Fahmy, a consultant working and living in London asks: Do university degrees matter?
What do you think?
October 19th, 2005 at 12:33 am
In short, "Nah!".
I was previously an Operations Manager at an education/corporate training startup. In our first year of operations, my managing director insist that our staff comprise solely of graduates.
He’s British by the way, and he’s used to the education standard there. Imagine his suprise when he saw how incompetent, and worse, how bad the attitude of Malaysian graduates are, in general.
They think that they’re really the best thing that’s ever graced this earth. What’s funny is that; they have zero business sense, they have extremely poor communications skill, and probably the worse thing is that their English is worse than a third-world country which was formerly colonised by France or some other non-English speaking nation.
I’d rather employ someone with lesser paper qualifications, probably a diploma or even SPM, as long as the person has passion in the job… this is especially true for IT positions. Being in the IT line, and with experience working overseas, I can honestly say that I could whip any average Malaysian IT graduate’s arse when it comes to technical and business skills.
Most Malaysian graduates treat university education as an extension to secondary level education. When it fact, it should a revolution of learning experience. Most of them buzz through without actually "learning" anything. Exams are passed merely by memorising stuff as well as getting "tips" from their professors.
It’s not really the fault of the graduates though, it’s just that our tertiary education system is not really conducive in producing "thinking" individuals. Sure, they can churn graduates… but quality ones? I think not.
And don’t take my word in this issue. How many unemployed Malaysian graduates do you personally know personally? Have you ever asked them how their interviews went? Have you ever asked them why they think they failed? And the answer to the next question will illustrate their mindset… Ask them what they’ve done since failing the last interview. Prepare to be petrified.
October 19th, 2005 at 2:01 am
"…as an extension to secondary level education."
I cannot help but concur with you. At the rate it’s going, any Tom, Dick or Harry is gonna be a degree holder.
In the past, when a person made it into a university, he would be recognized as the cream of the crop.
These days, money speaks. And the whole degree thing is becoming an overkill. Everyone’s doing it. And having one doesn’t make you the "cream of the crop" anymore. It merely makes you "just like everyone else".
However, I think it is not right to say that degrees don’t matter at all. True, by having a degree, it doesn’t mean that you’re really capable. But most employers still seek degree holders to join their organizations. How many of us can really make do with just an SPM cert? (Especially when so many of our peers have already obtained their degree!)
It is more approriate to think that university degrees can no longer be made the yardstick that measures/tells a person’s capabilities. A university degree matters, because it may be the minimum requirement for a certain position. However, an entirely different assessment scheme is needed to to evaluate his capabilities, trustworthiness, leadership qualities, language proficiency, etc.
OOT: I am also sad to learn that certain quarters actually think that a foreign degree holder is more favorable compared to a local one. How misled, they have been.
October 19th, 2005 at 2:37 am
For Malaysian companies, I think its a "yes" when they recruit. Seems to me academic results are all they’re concerned about. For the Westerners (at least in Australia) they’re more focused on getting someone who’s an all-rounder (minimum req communication skills, ppl who can "think" and not just memorise, flexibility etc). Emphasis here is on "education", not rote learning.
A very interesting topic, cos this semester I’ve had the opportunity to be the sole international student in an Arts subject. A discussion a few weeks ago in class with the Aussies involved this topic - different mindsets of "education" among Asia and the West. They tell me — they think those who take business/commerce are merely having "job training" whereas those who choose humanities (eg political science/ anthropology/sociology etc) are getting an "education". Which is true to an extent.
How many Malaysian parents actually encourage their kids into humanities/arts? Some degrees are valued more than others, with everyone thinking "if u take anthropology, most likely its bcos u couldn’t get in to the other "preferred" degrees". Also, how many local colleges offer the social sciences/humanities/arts degrees such as political science? Meaning for those of us who didn’t take STPM, there isn’t even the option.
The quality of Malaysian graduates seem low (generalising based on all the laments we’ve heard). General complaints seem to be abt (lackof)communication and the lack of enterprise/initiative. This’ll continue to be the case when employers are still so focused on academic results. Almost all job openings I’ve seen require detailed submission of academic results from SPM onwards. Few companies mention other qualities they seek. Even those which DO state, seldom practice what they say.
In the increasingly globalised world, while Malaysia is still bickering abt education (insisting our universities are world class etc), we’re getting left behind (in terms of research, brain-drain, quality of graduates..). Makes me wonder abt our competitiveness in the (near) future..
p/s Apologies for the long comment
October 19th, 2005 at 3:00 am
We all know that the fundamental of everything is education system.
Ruling coalition knows this too, but the saddest part is that, education system is now being utilised as a TOOL to gain political mileage, hence the current system that we have now is disrupted and corrupted, instead of a supposingly independent education system.
We’re deprived of that right for such a long time ago, however no major revamp to be seen, only cheap talks around those golden mouths.
Yes, I can’t agree more with Diana that we’re left behind, far worse that what we’ve expected actually.
Sad but true enough.
October 19th, 2005 at 9:46 am
If you are talking about the job market, it’s often the prerequisite and sometimes also means different salary scale. That’s how it works, like it or not.
If you are talking about capability and the prospects of being successful, it’s more on individuals than the education attainment.
Of course, having a degree doesn’t mean it’s a guarantee to great career and success. Just like what Azmeen said, there are many unemployed uni grads all around. So again, it boils down to the individuals.
For me, working in Singapore, the paper is definitely important. Having it means you can start off on a different footing than those who don’t.
Anyway, this may sound hypocritical, but education should not be about the paper. If one goes to university with the mindset of just to get the degree so as to get a better job, instead of gaining the knowledge and learning experience, then i bet this person won’t get much out from the university and isn’t any much different from a highschool grad.
October 19th, 2005 at 11:29 am
Somehow, I beg to differ.
A degree matters so much to the extent that you are unable to get a decent -paying job if you don’t hold at least a diploma. Especially a professional degree (eg. engineering, accountancy).
Even results still matter very very much.
In a recent interview, I was given the impression that first class graduates do really matter, whereas the rest of us had to go throgh a gruelling session of testing our "other capabilities" and convincing our employers that we were "up to the mark".
Try finding a job these days with your SPM cert. Or even your anthropology cert. I bet you can’t even earn enough to fend yourself these days, not to say to fend for your whole family.
Before judging the quality of humanity subjects, do take a look first at our country’s environment to absorb graduates from these subjects. What do you do if you have a degree in Geography? Or Anthropology? Even graduates from psychology from overseas universities have to become a motivational speaker to earn money.
So who says DEGREE doesn’t matter.
October 19th, 2005 at 1:29 pm
It seems that there is an endless debate on Malaysian education. I believe that the big word, Education is just a mean-to-an-end and not the end. For a graduate, it is just the start of a new chapter in life, what most of us call as the Working-Life; it doesn’t matter whether it is a business degree or a humanity degree.
Everyone knows that education doesn’t end when you graduate. It is a life long process and everyone is also learning. It is a matter of how conscious and how proactive you learn! You can learn from a beggar or you can learn from Mother Theresa. It is the same as you can have good education with business degree or a humanity degree. It is about the learner!
Graduates are more informed that ever. They realized even before graduating that working for an employer no longer work. This is true if you look at how many grads is in MLM! They know that when they work hard, their employer can play golf harder. So is organization offering those grads something to look forward to, something to fuel their passion beside the small paycheck?
For an employer, it is easier to blame the grads (esp will all the data from the media support the claim) rather than take proactive steps to train up those grads.
Also, you want quality, but it seems that you are not willing to pay for them! Try increasing your pay and you will be interviewing quality. There is no such thing as cheap and good!
Does a university degree matter?
To me, yes! It matters. The employer will not even look thru your resume if you did not qualify their minimum requirements. Tonnes of applications, so why must an employer choose sub-standard.
You can have the best personality in the world with passion as big as the sea, but sorry to say, no one will know as you won’t be short listed for interview if your resume can’t sing a tune! But again as I say, it just a mean to an end. I am pretty confident that they will get better as their age mature and their exposure increase. It is just life I guess!
As I said earlier, a degree is just a means to an end. I believe that, such grads will sooner or later be competent with the help of the wise and the push of circumstances.
So, stop bombarding those grads and keep sending them messages thru whatever media/medium that they are incompetent, that future fall because of their incompetence. It like a mother kept telling her son over and over again that, “You’re stupid, and our family will be ruined because of you.”
Send them love instead, send them guidance. Tell them it is ok to screw up. You are still young, and don’t worry we are here to guide you and support you.
October 21st, 2005 at 12:29 pm
JL,
It’s not about blaming the grads. Like I said in my earlier post, there’s very little data to support the fact that our grads are first class. They’re not… not everyone, but a very significant overwhelming majority.
Why do you think they keep getting "bombarded" by the media as you put it? Do you think that due to free time and imagination working in overtime, that they just thought, "Hey! Let’s blame our grads for some imaginary messed up future!"
That conclusion was arrived at by obtaining statistics, interviewing key HR decision makers (especially those responsible for recruitment), interviewing the grads themselves (both the successful ones and those who are unemployed), analysing the differences between them, and so on.
What you’ve written in your third paragraph pretty much sums up the shallow mindset that many Malaysian graduates have. Mind you, I’m not saying that you are one, nor that I’m implying that you’re shallow. Do you even know the pain and suffering that the "golf playing employer" have to go through just to reach that level?
If you think it’s so easy, and that success and riches are guaranteed when you employ people, then by all means, go ahead… try and start your own business. Start employing people and then I’d like to see you make the same statement. I’d be suprised if you don’t start feeling the way most private sector employers here do.
I’ve not been an employer myself, but I’m a key decision maker when it comes to recruitment. I speak through experience and backed by years of compiled facts.
I have absolutely zero emotional attachment when speaking of this issue. To me, it’s just business. Nothing personal. I wouldn’t notice if I’m interviewing a 2.5, 3.0 or 4.0 CGPA grad without going through the papers he/she brings. But I can tell almost immediately if an interviewee is in tuned to the business dynamics and potential job scope of the position he/she’s going for.
I also find it suprising that you’ve mentioned that employers would rather blame rather than train up individuals. Believe me, we prepare all sorts of training for new recruits. But time and time again, when we’re dealing with fresh Malaysian grads, they have very poor attitude when it comes to training. They think that they know it all already.
And don’t even let me get started on additional work responsibilities. The modern working environment is no longer the 9 to 5 routine that our parents and grandparents used to do. It has evolved a lot. Flexi-hours, staggered shifts, telecommuting, renewable contract… work is as and when needed. That’s the real nature of business. The world doesn’t wait for you to report to work. Every single minute of a company’s operation is either revenue or expenses.
A large majority of Malaysian graduates can’t grasp this concept. Which is why they’re always gunning for "easy" jobs, like joining the public sector where working life is so routine, "safe", and virtually guaranteed for life. And the paradoxical thing about this is that, these people will then run key ministries, like Education, when they have virtually zero real-world experience. And believe me, spending time in the shielded and slow moving world of the public sector doesn’t equate to experience.
You’ve mentioned grads going into MLM, I know of grads having hi-tech degrees like Engineering and Computer Science doing retail. Their excuse was because they couldn’t find other jobs… I gave these people jobs, but they just couldn’t hack it and resigned.
I guess only being cashiers and sales promoters are the "easy" jobs that they’ve always envisioned during their study years. Fixed working time, easy tasks, get paid at the end of the month.
It’s only about 10% economic problems that fresh Malaysian grads couldn’t get jobs. 90% of the problem comes from their own attitude.
November 4th, 2005 at 2:55 am
[…] Let’s forget about the significance of owning a degree as 60000 graduates can’t even utilise it, even when they have one. […]
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